Tulpa.info - tulpa-questions-2

When I'm talking about me personally dissociating, I'm not including that (hard for me to separate from ADHD spacing out for me anyway), I'm talking about heavy derealization generally, and whatever it is where you feel like you're just watching yourself do things but not actually doing it.

12:53 AM

But I'm also not talking about a full total blackout.

In the moment of panic itself did you dissociate? Because that's what I'm getting at. That's not the response your body will give you. The freeze response involves your muscles seizing, your senses sharpening, your body filling with adrenaline and preparing to experience trauma? I honestly don't even know why we're talking about dissociation in this context. Is there some sort of article that equates the two because in my experience they're not related at all. Hypnotic states are common to varying degrees, the mind doesn't keep awareness on its surroundings perfectly. That can come alongside dissociating from senses in the loose sense. But calling that dissociation in the sense of disorderly dissociation seems like a disservice to how obviously more powerful disordered dissociation seems to be.

12:57 AM

If you see a bear and freeze, you don't space out. You prepare to die.

12:57 AM

And that is intense, you don't separate from it. (edited)

12:59 AM

Dissociation in the loose sense. Feeling numb and less real, that usually comes after if you survive.

12:59 AM

Because this is the sort of thing I've always seen it in context of, and that meshes with my experiences.

"types?"

1:00 AM

The response is judgementative and circumstantial. (edited)

Yes, four types of trauma responses, Fight, Flight, Freeze and Fawn, which is why I said...

That's not what that says. That says types as in "types of person"

Calyra 👻

I mean, I've only ever seen freeze reference dissociation in part of the discussion, but granted the four F's refers to multiple things: trauma responses, motivational behaviors in mammals, and threat response.

You don't dissociate the first time you experience trauma. It happens with sustained badness, unlike regular ol' PTSD.

I don't feel like that is accurate because basically everyone dissociates to some degree and I myself have experienced reflexive dissociation to certain situations and do not even have PTSD.

This.

1:01 AM

I've seen the four F's in regards to different things.

Also I've never seen fawn added to the flight/fight/freeze before.

Zen

That's not what that says. That says types as in "types of person"

As in, the type of response that you tend towards

1:03 AM

Codependents, for example, would tend towards Fawn.

1:04 AM

It's basically placating and appeasing.

I don't know if this is just a completely different model describing something else, since it seems to be specifically trauma your referencing.

I think so.

When I refer to flight/fight/freeze those are the only valid responses. And they are physiological response to fear.

1:05 AM

Not specifically pain or trauma or anything like that. But threat.

1:05 AM

It is a rapid threat analysis state. When it fails, you stay in freeze. Otherwise you come to a conclusion and flee or fight.

I wonder if Leiko was thinking along the lines I was.

Quite possibly, I didn't know it was used in anything other than that context if it is. But I suppose it's fairly generic as a concept, it could be broadly applied.

1:14 AM

I am seeing a couple links referring it to a response to stress as well? But again that doesn't directly pertain to the actual fear response that it was supposed describe. It's important to note the distinction here as well - There can be types of people who actually tend toward responses. The only way you get that with the standard fear response is basically training and preparation. The default is freeze, and everyone freezes off the bat. Then you rapidly think and then your brain chooses instinctively one of the three responses. The freeze response is just the computation stage and it can go on too long. Whereas in the context of trauma and stress it seems to be a general over-time description of types of people's response to things. (edited)

1:17 AM

That said the same instant decision type response can be generated as as result of having PTSD, which ramps it up and makes it behave even more irrationally than it tends to.

Is the freeze like shutting down?

Depends on if you mean the fear one or the stress/trauma one it seems. Fear-freezing is hyper-aware. It's a state in which you direct all your attention towards a threat and attempt to discern how dangerous it is. Physically you shut down, but mentally you're moving as rapidly as you can and your senses are very much on high alert.

I used to get that, but it doesn't happen anymore. Everything seems trivial now.

Hello! I am the Comrade. And I'm here because I need help. I have set out to create a tulpa ... For two years now. I always have the same problem. I do not notice any kind of answers ... I was looking for someone with an endogenic system who can help me in this part of the process that is becoming really frustrating, since I have already consulted guides, and in all of them they say the same thing in my opinion. Please, if someone can help me, you can talk to me in private or right here to give more information about what is happening

What's the process you are attempting to use?(what are you doing that is)

What have you done already?

I'm just trying to think about him. And talk to him

7:06 PM

Having thought about whether personality form and development

If you haven't been getting any results for such a long time I would recommend trying a more involved method such as parroting and more involved visualization of their form

Honestly parroting does work, it’s basically just roleplaying until your character develops into a tulpa. That’s what I did on accident. There are more issues that can come out of it though, like a tulpa that feels bound to their story and either had no interest in the real world or struggles to be a part of it.

Since your problem is response right now I imagine some training by e.g writing a book, involved roleplay or other highly imaginative exercises that focus on imagining what someone would do, could be useful as well.

"Struggling to make a tulpa? Write a novel first!"

The typical "problem" with parroting is that it kinda feels like your the one doing it and that the tulpa isn't independent. But if you haven't been getting any responses for such a long time that is something you can try and deal with afterwards if it happen

7:26 PM

"Struggling to make a tulpa? Write a novel first!"

@Unfastened Belts - jump Yup!

That's how Joy and Gwen were made

Actually, to develop his personality, before forcing him, use him as a Rolplay character

For me I spent a good year before achieving what I'd consider vocality, but in retrospect they were vocal for a long time before that but I wouldn't accept it and it made them feel not as real. Are they capable of responding to questions automatically or is your brain completely silent? Automatic thought is what you're really aiming for, and from there you can increase feelings of realness.

Well, if I'm centered on listening to him, I don't hear anything. If I'm distracted in something else it's like there's a predictable automatic wake-up

When you try to make your brain quiet it will often make you have random thoughts. One of the things it's important to know about those thoughts is that they're very rarely actually "You" in any meaningful way. If you want to get a sense for this try to meditate and not think at all, and acknowledge that you can't easily stop thinking even when you're not consciously doing it. You are conscious thought, whereas those thoughts that arise can be related to your behaviours and some of them might be part of your identity, but they can also be random or even a simulation of someone else. The way I see it you can start to pick out what your tulpa is by loosening control and letting the brain think in this state. By default these kind of thoughts are not hugely alien to you, they're very natural and normal, but once you start to recognize what is "them" your brain will start to fill in the gaps of the experience as you convince yourself of their realness.

The more I hear those random thoughts, or have answers. That's when I'm half asleep. When I wake up I rarely remember what I said, but... can I take advantage of that to talk to him?

8:57 PM

And self-convinced me

That state is hypnogogia, which is usually way more uncontrolled and random even than that. You should be able to do this whilst fully awake. On a related note hypnogogia can do some funky stuff though, like let you touch them and make them feel totally real. The problem with it is that it's way harder to control and stay aware in. Some of my early experiences where in both lucid dreams and hypnogogia, but I never started any of them: they just happened. I'd focus on doing it whilst awake and conscious. (edited)

I understand, I're here. I just let those thoughts flow. And I take random answers as true answers. Over time they will begin to become solid (edited)

Time and belief, yes.

Is it a good idea for I to continue to play a literary role? (edited)

9:08 PM

accepting all random answers could potentially build a strong habit of accepting any thought as coming from a thoughtform, which might lead to it going out of control and getting walk-ins

9:08 PM

I wouldn't accept any random answer as true answer

9:09 PM

I would recommend an extra step. "Does it sound like something my tulpa would say?" If so, then accept it

As in roleplaying with them? I would avoid intentionally controlling them if you have a good understanding of their personality already.

9:09 PM

And yes, as Leiko says. Judge thoughts, do not accept all, decide which ones could be them and which ones are not or random. There will always be random thoughts and some of them can be bad.

Ok thank !. Can I comment on my progress?

Yep feel free.

Can someone tell me how do I avoid going into an hypnogogic state while visualizing my tulpa. I try to sit on the floor with a pillow to avoid too much comfort but usually after 15-30 minutes I start entering a hypnogogic state and loose all focus over my tulpa. I try to stay conscious during this but I feel it becomes pointless after a while since nothing makes sense, any tips on how to avoid this.

Are you certain you're getting enough sleep? Being able to sleep sitting up just by becoming relaxed during meditation isn't something I'm capable of doing.

Zen

Are you certain you're getting enough sleep? Being able to sleep sitting up just by becoming relaxed during meditation isn't something I'm capable of doing.

yes, I do get 8-10 hours of sleep (edited)

You can try being mindful of how sleepy you are and if you start to get sleepy, open your eyes, think about something that makes you more alert, etc Or you could place your tulpa in the room and look at that spot with your eyes open. Or you can write to them instead, you probably won't fall asleep while writing

4:26 PM

I sleep a lot as well, but my brain still takes "sitting quietly with eyes closed" as a cue to start falling asleep

Yuka

You can try being mindful of how sleepy you are and if you start to get sleepy, open your eyes, think about something that makes you more alert, etc Or you could place your tulpa in the room and look at that spot with your eyes open. Or you can write to them instead, you probably won't fall asleep while writing

Yes I think Ill try writing (edited)

Yuka

I sleep a lot as well, but my brain still takes "sitting quietly with eyes closed" as a cue to start falling asleep

Exactly me too, Im like sitting in the most uncomfortable position to not fall asleep but my brain goes meh

4:42 PM

and before I know it weird shit is happening in my wonderland, even though Im concious I cant control what goes on and it seems pointless at that point

sardine

Can someone tell me how do I avoid going into an hypnogogic state while visualizing my tulpa. I try to sit on the floor with a pillow to avoid too much comfort but usually after 15-30 minutes I start entering a hypnogogic state and loose all focus over my tulpa. I try to stay conscious during this but I feel it becomes pointless after a while since nothing makes sense, any tips on how to avoid this.

I find this question ironic because I know a system who swears up and down hypnogogic hallucinations can lead to fantastic experiences with your tulpa. I don't know if it's a good idea to discourage hypnagogic experiences just yet, I highly recommend asking @BearBaeBeau about that

2:58 PM

15-30 minute sessions may be testing your limit. I think that's good progress, I would continue practicing and take a break when you feel too tired or want to sleep

sardine

and before I know it weird shit is happening in my wonderland, even though Im concious I cant control what goes on and it seems pointless at that point

That's interesting. We have had intrusive thoughts mess with our wonderland and it "glitches out", but that's a product of anxiety and not us being on the verge of sleeping. We struggle to sleep, we need to let our brain relax and not focus on anything.

I was about to say, yeah that, in general people like hypnogogia because of the boost it gives to visualization From what you describe, I have a hard time thinking it's actually hypnogogia however... it sounds more like you're describing mind-wandering (being distracted and having visualizations/thinking) If it's hypnogogia, it means you literally are seconds away from being asleep... you said it happens while sitting up on the floor, which is what makes me think you're describing visual mind-wandering/distraction Most people's minds wander too while they try to fall asleep, but that's not hypnogogia... hypnogogia also only tends to last under a minute or two, and is often only a couple seconds long, immediately before or after sleep. Your mind can wander for pretty much as long as you want. Hypnogogia is like a thirty second acid trip (edited)

3:10 PM

There was this OG guy Link Zelda who did something called "imagestreaming"

A long kiss goodnight

I find this question ironic because I know a system who swears up and down hypnogogic hallucinations can lead to fantastic experiences with your tulpa. I don't know if it's a good idea to discourage hypnagogic experiences just yet, I highly recommend asking @BearBaeBeau about that

Thanks, yes Ill try to contact them asap.

He would meditate and encourage visual mind-wandering and try to remember what he saw and write it all down People don't really do that nowadays but I was just reminded of it

3:11 PM

Yeah, I'd be interested to know what Bear says about it

A long kiss goodnight

That's interesting. We have had intrusive thoughts mess with our wonderland and it "glitches out", but that's a product of anxiety and not us being on the verge of sleeping. We struggle to sleep, we need to let our brain relax and not focus on anything.

No, I rarely have intrusive thoughts especially when Im focusing on my wonderland. Its like I just hit a timer after a point and boom Im a goner. Like really random shit starts happening.

That sounds like instrusive thoughts... this community has a pretty broad definition, it's doesn't have to be a literal thought, nor violence/mean Trying to picture a chair and oh no, suddenly you only see a zebra, that's an "intrusive thought" in tulpamancy lingo

JGC

I was about to say, yeah that, in general people like hypnogogia because of the boost it gives to visualization From what you describe, I have a hard time thinking it's actually hypnogogia however... it sounds more like you're describing mind-wandering (being distracted and having visualizations/thinking) If it's hypnogogia, it means you literally are seconds away from being asleep... you said it happens while sitting up on the floor, which is what makes me think you're describing visual mind-wandering/distraction Most people's minds wander too while they try to fall asleep, but that's not hypnogogia... hypnogogia also only tends to last under a minute or two, and is often only a couple seconds long, immediately before or after sleep. Your mind can wander for pretty much as long as you want. Hypnogogia is like a thirty second acid trip (edited)

I cant really say its mind wandering cause it doesnt really wander when Im very focused, Im able to go about in a first person perspective pretty easily in my wonderland right now and I dont really see anything going off. The reason for using hypnogogic is cause I have similar experiences many times when going to sleep, yea its like an acid trip, random images its just so random dream worlds Im juming into and out and I think that is hypnogogic if my definition is right. (edited)

You aren't sleep-deprived or on any medications or any other condition that causes drowsiness/sedation, are ya?

3:16 PM

You could just be prone to that, it varies a lot... some people almost never enter hypnogogic states

3:17 PM

The artist Dali was probably in one for most of his waking hours lmao

JGC

You aren't sleep-deprived or on any medications or any other condition that causes drowsiness/sedation, are ya?

no, no I get 8-10 hours daily of slep (edited)

He utilized them for creativity and wrote exercises for how to achieve and use them, fascinating stuff, a bit hard to read because his writing was also loony and dreamlike

3:18 PM

The fix is probably still just discipline and practice Reigning things in after they start being uncontrolled in your mind is a skill

3:21 PM

Try a bell every 5 minutes, or maybe even start with 5 minutes but then make it every 1 or 2 minutes once you start having problems

JGC

That sounds like instrusive thoughts... this community has a pretty broad definition, it's doesn't have to be a literal thought, nor violence/mean Trying to picture a chair and oh no, suddenly you only see a zebra, that's an "intrusive thought" in tulpamancy lingo

That actually might fit a little. I recall an incident from a few days back. I was actually contructing my tulpas appeareance and wonderland differently like I was making my tulpa in a lab of some sort and an old bearded small man comes and he like puts my tulpa in the trolley he had with him and tells me hes gonna carry them off to my wonderland so I dont have to do it and the next time I come Ill find my tulpa there. It was just so weird cause I was aware I wanst doing it and the fact that he carried my tulpa off with him weirded me out even more plus I even told he to stop but he said its gonna be all right, I just gotta trust in him (edited)

Yeah that's just brain imagination autogenerating gook You can play and have fun like that, but you should also practice being able to ignore and discourage it when you don't want it

3:22 PM

It's natural, pretty much anyone who develops a wonderland will have some of that, especially in the beginning, and everyone treats it differently

3:23 PM

Try the bell thing, and set rules/boundaries for how far you'll let it entertain you and where you put your foot down

3:23 PM

If I'm trying to imagine a vase of white tulips but hey suddenly it's pink tulips and forget-me-nots and the vase looks different, I might decide, hey this is better actually, and go with that instead

3:24 PM

But, this is a real example, when my tulpa was two days old he came to me and suddenly had no arms, and well I said yeah we aren't doing that

3:24 PM

But he also came to me and had a red sweater that I'd never thought of before, and he just got to keep that, and he's over 2 years old today and he still wears that red sweater

My hypnogogia is different, it's like a momentary lapse in lucidity, I forget what I was thinking about and my thoughts are momentarily replaced with something really random. If there's imagery, it's not really more vivid. It's not useful for anything, it just interrupts.

I would say that intrusive thoughts and hypnogogia feel and act hugely differently to me. Intrusive thoughts are random but cohesive. Hypnogogia is often random in context and feeling and often the thoughts you produce during them are nonsensical.

3:31 PM

It takes considerable focus to not just get lost in it, as it were. Which is of course, what it's there for.

JGC

Try the bell thing, and set rules/boundaries for how far you'll let it entertain you and where you put your foot down

Yes, that seems like a good ides. I shall try it.

JGC

But he also came to me and had a red sweater that I'd never thought of before, and he just got to keep that, and he's over 2 years old today and he still wears that red sweater

Thats just heartwarming!

Yeah he's a big sweetie

@Rusty is there a hard line between tulpas and OCs? Is it possible for someone to be sort of both, or it not really be clear either way? When OCs become tulpas, do they change so much, or is it more like, they were just recognized for having grown into tulpas?

There isn’t a hard line